July 14, 2006
Gratuitous Llama Religious Blegging
Friends, I need your input.
As many of you know, my own Episcopal Church is on a course for self-destrution.
As regular readers also know, I've been flirting with the idea of going back to Rome for some time now.
Of course, this is bound to raise some issues. For instance, Mom was born Catholic, but left the Church in her youth. Despite the fact that I gained most of my old-school Episcopalian impulses from her, she has told me repeatedly that she could never go back to Rome.
On the other hand, the Missus comes from a Jewish family. While she became an Episcopalian, she could never imagine either herself or her children becoming Catholic.
Well, I'm fine with all of that. I'm sure it could all be worked out one way or another, should I join the Church.
But here's the thing. Well, two things, actually:
First, I don't think I'm good enough to become a Catholic. This may seem silly, but I am so conscious of my own religious shortcomings and of the Church's, well, depth, that I truly wonder whether I am being serious in musing about joining it. Most of my Catholic friends have a spiritual strength far beyond anything I can imagine in myself. I have no real problem with surrendering portions of my autonomy to the Vatican, but I don't yet know if they are the right bits, or really worth it in the eyes of Rome.
Second, I can't help wondering if my affinity for Rome isn't in some part similar to my Anglophilia. You see, I love all things related to the Mother Country, but I'm also keenly aware that much of what I cherish no longer exists and when it did exist, did not do so in quite the stylized manner that I like to remember in my more sentimental moments. I worry that the same standard applies to my affinity for Catholicism: I love the old masses and Monteverdi's religious solos and duets, for example, literally make me cry. But at the same time, my experiences with more modern Catholic worship have made me shudder, being, as they were, infected with the same sprit of with-it modernism that I abhore.
So what do I do? I can't join a Church I at once don't consider myself good enough to join and at the same time am questioning whether it in itself is actually worth joining. At the same time, I cannot deny the reality of what I feel when I come face to face with God on the Church's terms. And, with respect to the issue of conversion, as far as I can tell, there aren't very many other options for me.
What's a pilgrim to do.
UPDATE: Note to self: Ix-nay on the ate night Papist posting l-lay. It looks like religious beer-goggling in the morning.
UPDATE DEUX: Speaking of such things, Ith posts a link to this site which hosts a list of conservative Episcopal parishes, a rag-tag fugitive fleet fleeing from the ECUSA tyranny. Among the NoVA churches, I've heard a good bit about The Falls Church. Indeed, I believe several parishoners from my own church have gone over there. I've also been to Truro a few times. Don't much care for it - too many "Turn or Burn" t-shirts and too much hugging. Also, a drum set by the alter is always a huge black mark in my book.
UPDATE TROIS: Many thanks to everybody who left comments, both here and in the Tasty Bits (TM) Mail Sack.
I see that I expressed myself badly about one point - I'm not really worried about whether I'm "good" enough. Rayther, I should have said I was concerned about being "serious" enough in my musings or whether I was just Pope-goggling. There are plenty of good reasons to join a Church, but also a lot of very bad ones. I don't yet know whether my reasons would be good enough a) because I haven't even clearly articulated those reasons yet and b) because I frankly don't know enough about Rome to satisfy myself that it would have the answers to my concerns. I suppose that's why they hold classes.
Anyhoo, that's closer to what I meant to say.
Posted by Robert at July 14, 2006 11:51 PM | TrackBack
Not all parishes are so modern. Some of them specialize in Tridentine Masses. If you want I can find a webpage that lists all parishes in the US that are Ecclesia Dei-friendly. (Ecclesia Dei is a motu proprio by His Holiness Pope John Paul the Great permitting the Tridentine Mass to be said. For what it may be worth, His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI is very supportive of those seeking spiritual nourishment from Latin Masses. Ecclesia Dei Wikipedia article. Ecclesia Dei text in English.) Although there is a liberal and liberalizing movement in the Catholic Church (particularly in America), there are equally powerful and influential traditionalist and conservative movements. (Just stay away from schismatics like the Sedevanatists and the Society of St. Pius X.)
Whereas taking Catholicism seriously is important, could it be possible you are taking it a bit too seriously? God has given you gifts. Everyone's gifts are different. Rather than comparing with other Catholics, perhaps it would be more prudent to see how your gifts can be magnified in the service of God based on those gifts and of your capacity. I believe when God calls you to sanctify your life, He wants it to be according to who and what you are. Do what you can.
Anglophilia is a good thing. But I do not know if that is a good foundation upon which to build one's spirituality. I like The Holy See because of its history, tradition, and link back to St. Peter, the first pope. Roman culture, history, architecture, music, et cetera, really does not and should not play a role.
I apologize profusely if I have written anything offensive or presumptive.
Posted by: Muslihoon at July 15, 2006 12:43 AMNot at all, at all.
I'm just trying be sure that if I were to actually do this, it would be for the right reasons. (You know how much trouble you can get into when you're rebounding.)
Posted by: Robbo the LB at July 15, 2006 06:10 AMMay I recommend the Reformed Episcopal Church? Here is a link http://rechurch.org/recus/recus/index.html
If there were such a parish in San Antonio, Texas, I would be there.
Keep in mind that the ECUSA is daring the Worldwide Anglican Communion to toss them out of the American Province. You never know, the RECUS may become the recognized church (in the worldwide body) one day. We shall see.
Anyway, I enjoy your site.
Posted by: Barry K. at July 15, 2006 07:01 AMI know you must see the doctrinal error of the formulation "not good enough for . . ."
None of us are "good enough for". That is why the grace of God is required; that was why the death of Christ on the cross was required.
I think that if you do return to Catholicism, that that concern will, after a few months, seem silly to you. Nothing we do on Earth can redeem the gift; but that's why it's a gift.
And I think that's true of any form of Christianity. We're not good enough for any of it, Robbo. The denomination doesn't change that.
My concern is that the strain of modernism you abhor is to be found here, too. You can find just about any flavor of Catholicism depending on the parish. A lot of people find the modernism so abhorrent that they come to the conclusion "the church -- the church I used to know -- is dead". I think in some ways you see becoming a Catholic as the end of a journey -- but it isn't. You'll do every bit as much soul-searching within the Catholic church as you do in the Episcopal church. Just warning you.
That being said, as to the question itself, my advice would be to seek the answer in prayer. Seek and ye shall find, ask and ye shall receive.
Posted by: The Colossus at July 15, 2006 07:11 AMDo not worry about "not being good enough" - God's grace and forgiveness are for all seek it.
Posted by: LMC at July 15, 2006 07:32 AMHave you been picking my brain again???
We need that blogmeet...
Posted by: GroovyVic at July 15, 2006 08:21 AMThe drum set is why I love Truro. ;-)
Have you considered the Orthodox church? My SIL has been going to an Orthodox church for the past several years and loves it.
Posted by: jen at July 15, 2006 09:38 AMThe Falls Church is incredible - you really should give it a try. My recollection of it is that it's not as...drum-setty...as Truro. (Though I think Truro may downplay the drums at certain of their services, but that may or may not be true, it's been a long time since I was willing to drive that far for church.)
Posted by: beth at July 15, 2006 10:00 AMIf your wife has difficulties with the thought of being Catholic, you might want to suggest some resources. Try starting w/ Rosalind Moss, raised Jewish (conservative, I think, though not sure), converted to Evangelical Christianity and is now Catholic. Her brother David founded a group called Association of Hebrew Catholics. They have a web site: hebrewcatholic.org. Another author would be Bob Fishman. Any of these might be able to ease some of your wife's misgivings if you do decide you want to come home.
Posted by: Terentia at July 15, 2006 10:20 AMGlad the link was of use. I'm going through a similar quest right now. There's no way I can ever be Roman Catholic, not to mention I don't see why I should have to abandon my church. I'd rather stay and fight, or find a related church. I have my great grandmother's Prayer Book, and I'm not giving that heritage up willingly. Now here, there is a traditional Anglican parish here that's always been 1928 BCP. But when I move to Utah, I'm in trouble. Oddly enough, for such a conservative state, it seems they have one of the most liberal dioceses going.
You may want to check out the Anglo Catholics. My friend Sharon, who has the blog 'Tributaries' has given me a great deal of information on them, but it's not an option where I currently live in CA. she's always happy to share her experience and links to some of their information on the web.
I'll keep you in my prayers.
I was brought up as an Episcopalian, became Presbyterian when I married, then finally converted to Roman Catholicism. It was more like the church I grew up in, and the church I grew up in wasn't. And of course you're good enough to be a Catholic. If you're too good, you won't have anything to talk about in confession.
Posted by: gail at July 15, 2006 07:10 PMMay I suggest talking to MuNu's Annika or Captain Ed over at CQ? I was raised Catholic, but it never quite "took". They're both more knowlegable on the Church than I ever was, despite the best efforts of my Mom and various other teachers.
Posted by: Ted at July 15, 2006 08:46 PMMay I suggest talking to MuNu's Annika or Captain Ed over at CQ? I was raised Catholic, but it never quite "took". They're both more knowlegable on the Church than I ever was, despite the best efforts of my Mom and various other teachers.
All right, just got the "spam" screen, so if this double posts, get rid of one.
Posted by: Ted at July 15, 2006 08:52 PMOne thing that you may or may not be aware of there are better than 20 different Churches in full communion with Rome. That means that they are all Catholic but each has their own particular history, spin, hierarchy and rules. A lot of stuff is held in common but ever since Vatican II the non-latin Churches (latin rite is what most people think of when they think Roman Catholic) have been stepping things up and embracing their universal mission more.
If you're thinking of crossing the Tiber, you should be aware that there are better than 20 boats to choose from. Have a look. You may like what you see.
In more long range stuff, there's speculation that some of the moves that Benedict XVI is doing now with giving up his title as Patriarch of the West and enhancing collegiality is prep work for breaking up the latin rite into multiple patriarchal synods and possibly including a separate Anglican synod for a newly authorized Anglican Rite. It's all very intense tea leaf reading at this point but I thought I'd share.
Posted by: TM Lutas at July 15, 2006 10:19 PMOf course you're good enough to be catholic. They protect & take care of pedophiles, child molesters & sexual abusers in their own leadership, your sins & level of devotion are a piece of cake.
I should know, I'm a former Catholic who worked at The US catholic headquarters for many years. in fact it actually was the reason I left. After all, there's only so many report of brothels run out of orphanages by priests in developing countries that are then suppressed that this now former catholic could actually take. so you, with your thoughts and beer drinking would be lame in comparison!
Posted by: michele at July 16, 2006 07:59 AMAll Im going to say is : Anglican Catholic church www.anglicancatholic.org.
We have a parish in San Antonio. Fr. Dennis Turner. VERY lovely man - works with children at risk.
I used to be Roman Catholic - the ACC is what you would be familiar with as High Church Anglicanism. "All the bells and whistles."
Posted by: Sharon Ferguson at July 16, 2006 03:34 PMIth - Thank you for the plug!!
Posted by: Sharon Ferguson at July 16, 2006 03:35 PMI think that Kevin Smith has something important to say on this subject.
Posted by: Zendo Deb at July 16, 2006 06:49 PMWell Rob, I have little to add in the way of suggestions that I haven't already shared.
The grieving is understandable - I grew up Episcopal, was confirmed and later married in the Episcopal church, and both my kids were baptized in the Episcopal church. One was confirmed, but the other's conscience wouldn't allow him to in the face of all our problems with scripture.
It's been hard to leave; in many ways, I don't think I ever will.
But my Sundays are now well spent in the company of a warm and vibrant reformed, evangelical church that reveres scripture as much as it understands our nature and need for salvation. Our kids have learned the wisdom of searching their hearts and God's consistent discernment.
I know you'll keep both in your heart, whatever transition you face. You should realize from all the posts here that you'll have a great deal of prayer on your side. Rejoice!
Posted by: tee bee at July 16, 2006 08:43 PMRobbo,
I wish you the best of luck (and my prayers) on your spiritual journey.
It is not easy being a Roman Catholic, but it is a lot easier to practice in the Diocese of Arlington, than anywhere else. Anti-Catholicism exists. Years ago (early '90s), I was stunned to hear the fiance of a close friend of mine, state to a sympathetic audience "..I'm very anti-Catholic". Up to that moment, I thought such attitudes went out with Jack Kennedy. I had had a Jewish girlfriend in high school and college, and she spoke often of anti-Semitism. I didn't truly know what she meant until that moment.
That stated, there is something very reassuring when the Faith is taught, and difficult moral issues addressed, with clarity. For me, it gives a quiet strength and confidence when I'm quizzed about abortion, or Trans-substantiation, or Papal infaliabilty and all the other questions that end with '..do You really believe that'? For the most part, I do.
Posted by: KMR at July 16, 2006 09:09 PM