Oh! I should take a photo of "The Neon Madonna." It is a home-grown shrine to the Blessed Virgin done by some very nice people about a half mile away from the Villainschloss. It sits in the middle of their front yard. I'll take a photo of it tonight and see about posting it just for you!

It's not possible to discuss this rationally. Everybody goes all emotional. So, my advice has always been this: Read Mark, then read Matthew, then read Mark again, and then read Luke, read Mark yet again, and then read John, and finally, read Mark one last time. If you do this, understanding that Mark stands alone as the oldest Gospel and the only one not written in High Greek (The legalese of that day), and you have a mind to understand, you'll see that all Gospels should go from the greetings and salutations directly to the ministry of John the Baptist, just as Mark does (And, I'm sure the other three originally did): All of that Virgin Mary stuff was a later addition, which is natural given the state of the Christian community at the end of the first century. People kept asking for more background information, and there were plenty ready to give it to them.

Nothing Christ did mattered until he was CHRISTENED by John. There really IS only one Gospel, and it's Mark. Mark marks the spot. If it's not in Mark or the letters of Paul (No virgin Mary myth in his writings) I don't trust the authenticity of it, with the singular exception of The Revelation of Saint John (Which was highly controversial, and nearly didn't make the canon).

I've studied this stuff for over thirty years now, and have read every English translation of The Bible (Some several times) plus all of the apocrypha, The Catholic Commentary on Holy Scripture, and the protestant equivalent, The Unfolding Drama of Redemption... but don't listen to me, figure it out for yourself: Take my challenge. I dare you.

Sorry, but I never bought into the idea that The Bible was, en toto, the inspired word of God: That idea, given human nature, is pure fantasy.

Mary was not a perpetual virgin. Jesus had a brother, James, born of Mary to Joseph.

Robbo, for your inspiration:
Somerville Madonnas

Please tell us more about this perpetual virginity claim. Why should it matter? And wouldn't giving Joseph blue balls have been a sin?

I worked from home today and caught a bit of one of EWTN's programs which discussed the biblical foundation for the role of Mary. It used the Old Testament's view of the role of the Queen Mother in the Davidic kingdom as one of its foundations; in that the Davidic kings had multiple wives and concubines, the role of Queen at court was played by the King's mother. All rather interesting, but new to me.

To me, it is simpler -- Christ does not fail to honor his mother, as He is the fulfilment of the law -- he does, as far as he is able, what she asks, which is why her role as intercessor is important. The embarrassed couple at Cana did not know enough of Christ to ask for his assistance; Mary was able to see the problem and the solution, and so, was able to prevail upon Him to act even though He felt it was not yet time.

The premise of all of Catholic intercession of the saints is that they have a relationship with Christ which is more perfect than ours; and that they might have insight into our particular problems -- which is not to say that Christ doesn't; but merely that the Catholic church presumes that the saints are not idle in Heaven, but still doing things to honor and glorify his name, and it pleases him to answer their prayers, as they are particularly beloved by him (none more than his mother).

I say the Rosary many, many times in a week -- I'd guess no fewer than 20 times in a week. I say it in the car as a means of filling time that would be otherwise unproductive. It is the mysteries of the Rosary that are what hold the appeal for me, all of which are meditations on the life of Christ, with the exception of the two relating to Mary's assumption and coronation.

My own list of saints to whom I pray, are: The archangels Michael, Gabriel, and Raphael (for protection from evil, for insight into the word, and for healing); St. John the Baptist (he is, in my view, the ultimate saint, combining prophet and martyr); Saints Peter and Paul (as I am a member of the church of Rome and of ancestors who were, at the time of Christ, Gentiles); Saints James and John (who were privileged to see the Transfiguration); Saint Edward the Confessor (my confirmation patron as I have always been an Anglophile); Saints Dominic and St. Francis (founders of the mendicant orders); Saint Camillus of Lellis (patron of the sick and dying, of whom there are a few in my family), Saint Theresa of Avila (for insight in my contemplative prayer), Padre Pio of Pietrelcina (for sanctity, and for good confessions) and Pope John Paul II, who is not yet a saint, but who is well on his way, because I once attended a Mass where he presided (along with 500,000 other people, on Boston common). If he is found to be a saint, he will be the only one I've come in contact with directly (Mrs. C., of course, not included).

I pray to them not because I believe they have any particular power in and of themselves (they themselves will assert that any grace comes from Christ), but because they are people who were particularly devoted to Christ in a particular area where I need help, and I believe them to be sympathetic. I also occasionally pray to St. Joseph (for protection of my home) and St. Neot (who is the patron saint of fish, which I keep as pets), and my own guardian angel, whose holiness and patience I can only imagine. I also pray to saints whose day it is in the calendar. I also read through the Roman Martyrology, which contains such tales as to make one weep, and ask for the intercession of martyrs -- mainly because I was struck, in reading Revelations, as to how important they are.

A rather long list; but I'm a bit of an eccentric in this regard, even among Catholics. I have, as part of my faith, a belief that the unused and unvisited portions of what the Church proclaims are particularly important, and the intercession of the saints is one of them.

As for Mary's perpetual virginity, it is argued from quite early in the church, as Wikipedia discusses pretty well here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_virginity_of_Mary

Luther, Calvin, Wesley, and Zwingli all agreed -- so the big four of mainline Protestantism had no beef with this part of Catholicism.

For me, it was resolved by the Second Council of Constantinople (553 A.D.), as well as subsequent ecumencial councils. If the church is what it says it is, and ecumenical councils are what the church says they are, then the doctrine is correct. And, as a Catholic, I believe the church is what it says it is.

Ultimately, one believes that God created the universe from nothing. If that is in his power, then so is everything else. :-)

To add to the excellent posts...

Catholics and the Orthodox honor (but do not worship) Mary as the perfect Christian. Accepting God's will, to place her life in His Hands, from the moment of the Incarnation.

This trust was not small, St. Joseph could have divorced her when he found out she was pregnant, or that she have been stoned as an adultress. And yet, she freely stepped forward in faith, to do the Lord's will.

Later, at the Presentation, she was warned that her heart would be pierced with sword, so that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed".

That all of us would have such Faith...

OK...I'm a Piskie/Palie, but have quite a few relatives in RC. As I"ve said before, I can't swim the Tiber....but I have considered Mary and asking her to intercede. While I feel that Jesus is the only itermediary we need with the Father, I can understand that people would go to Mary and ask her. Why you ask? In all seriousness and in no way meaning to offend anyone, she was a Jewish mother. Would YOU say no to her? And besides, she was his MOTHER. He would not violate her will because it would dishonor her. And that's the commandment with a blessing - Honor thy father and thy mother so that it may go well with you.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Yes! Time to get on a plane and go to Lourdes for some Holy Water. Then get on the bus and go to Fatima where you can walk on your knees while praying. You can also burn wax effigies of diseased organs and body parts. Anything you want healed on your ribald & libertine brother? Mental Disease & Personality Disorders are covered too.

Speaking of Jewish mothers, I wonder where James and John ended up -- remember their mother asked Christ to put one on his left and one on his right in his kingdom, and Christ told her it was the father's decision, not his. I imagine that they've got good seats. But hey, who can blame her? You don't ask, you don't receive, right?

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