November 09, 2004

Bawbwa!!!!!

mecha-babs.jpg

I was waiting for Mecha-Streisand to speak to the election:

In response to the results of the Presidential election last week, I would like to share with you a quote from Thomas Jefferson. Although written in 1798, I feel his words speak perfectly to the strong sentiments of frustration and disappointment 48% of the country feel.

"A little patience, and we shall see the reign of witches pass over, their spells dissolve, and the people, recovering their true sight, restore their government to its true principles. It is true that in the meantime we are suffering deeply in spirit, and incurring the horrors of a war and long oppressions of enormous public debt......If the game runs sometimes against us at home we must have patience till luck turns, and then we shall have an opportunity of winning back the principles we have lost, for this is a game where principles are at stake."

Now I'm all confused. Witches are bad? I thought Lefties were into that whole Wicca Thing. I suppose it's a question of whose broomstick gets shoved up whose backside and by whom.

Sorry, Babs. You lose.

(Oh, BTW, I'm assuming here that Steve-O isn't going to let the Queen of the Hollywood Moonbats get away with mangling Jeffersonian quotes. How 'bout a little historical perspective on the politics of 1798, Professor?)


YIPS from Steve:

Frankly, I smell a rat.

I have a hunch that she might have been suckered much like the whole Julius Caesar "bang the drums of war" fake quote from winter 2003. At the same time, 1798 was Jefferson at his hyperbolic worse, when he was busily plotting with French agents to overthrow the American Republic and install the guilotine in Market Square in Philadelphia.....

Does my latent Hamiltonianism show through?

UPDATE: Ha! Both Steve-O and a lynx-eyed commenter spotted the rat. I went back and tracked down the original letter. It is dated June 4, 1798 and is from Jefferson to a John Taylor of Philadelphia. Here is the complete text. Apart from the opening paragraph (in which T.J. prides himself on gaming the patent laws in order to get a second patent on a certain device without having to pay a second fee), the letter is mostly a rant about the Federalists taking over. (Jefferson blames their popularity on Washington's coattails.) But curiously enough, T.J. also has a great deal to say about scism and secession that runs exactly counter to the meme currently in favor among Babs' Moonbat Lefty compatriots. Here is a sample:

Be this as it may, in every free & deliberating society there must, from the nature of man, be opposite parties & violent dissensions & discords; and one of these, for the most part, must prevail over the other for a longer or shorter time. Perhaps this party division is necessary to induce each to watch & delate to the people the proceedings of the other. But if on a temporary superiority of the one party, the other is to resort to a scission of the Union, no federal government can ever exist. If to rid ourselves of the present rule of Massachusets & Connecticut we break the Union, will the evil stop there? Suppose the N. England States alone cut off, will our natures be changed? are we not men still to the south of that, & with all the passions of men? Immediately we shall see a Pennsylvania & a Virginia party arise in the residuary confederacy ,and the public mind will be distracted with the same party spirit. What a game, too, will the one party have in their hands by eternally threatening the other that unless they do so & so, they will join their Northern neighbors. If we reduce our Union to Virginia & N. Carolina, immediately the conflict will be established between the representatives of these two States, and they will end by breaking into their simple units. Seeing, therefore, that an association of men who will not quarrel with one another is a thing which never yet existed, from the greatest confederacy of nations down to a town meeting or a vestry, seeing that we must have somebody to quarrel with, I had rather keep our New England associates for that purpose than to see our bickerings transferred to others.

Also, Babs has gone elipse-happy again. Here is the text she cut out of her quote:

But who can say what would be the evils of a scission, and when & where they would end? Better keep together as we are, hawl off from Europe as soon as we can, & from all attachments to any portions of it. And if we feel their power just sufficiently to hoop us together, it will be the happiest situation in which we can exist.

Aside from making clear that T.J. was being hyperbolic in his use of the term "reign of witches" it seems to me that a reading of the entire letter makes quite plain his belief that squabble and dissention are inevitable in any kind of democracy and that each side must take its occassional exclusion from power philosophically, recognizing that the alternative - to take their ball and go home (or to Canada) is simply unworkable.


YIPS from Steve: I think it's worthwhile to put the whole text of the letter up, as it increases the hilarity associated with its use today. The parts in bold are those that noted Federalist era scholar Prof. Streisand used:

Mr. New shewed me your letter on the subject of the patent, which gave me an opportunity of observing what you said as to the effect with you of public proceedings, and that it was not unusual now to estimate the separate mass of Virginia and N. Carolina with a view to their separate existence. It is true that we are compleatly under the saddle of Massachusets & Connecticut, and that they ride us very hard, cruelly insulting our feelings as well as exhausting our strength and substance. Their natural friends, the three other eastern States, join them from a sort of family pride, and they have the art to divide certain other parts of the Union so as to make use of them to govern the whole. This is not new. It is the old practice of despots to use a part of the people to keep the rest in order, and those who have once got an ascendency and possessed themselves of all the resources of the nation, their revenues and offices, have immense means for retaining their advantages. But our present situation is not a natural one. The body of our countrymen is substantially republican through every part of the Union. It was the irresistable influence & popularity of Gen'l Washington, played off by the cunning of Hamilton, which turned the government over to anti-republican hands, or turned the republican members, chosen by the people, into anti-republicans. He delivered it over to his successor in this state, and very untoward events, since improved with great artifice, have produced on the public mind the impression we see; but still, I repeat it, this is not the natural state. Time alone would bring round an order of things more correspondent to the sentiments of our constituents; but are there not events impending which will do it within a few months? The invasion of England, the public and authentic avowal of sentiments hostile to the leading principles of our Constitution, the prospect of a war in which we shall stand alone, land-tax, stamp-tax, increase of public debt, &c. Be this as it may, in every free & deliberating society there must, from the nature of man, be opposite parties & violent dissensions & discords; and one of these, for the most part, must prevail over the other for a longer or shorter time. Perhaps this party division is necessary to induce each to watch & delate to the people the proceedings of the other. But if on a temporary superiority of the one party, the other is to resort to a scission of the Union, no federal government can ever exist. If to rid ourselves of the present rule of Massachusets & Connecticut we break the Union, will the evil stop there? Suppose the N. England States alone cut off, will our natures be changed? are we not men still to the south of that, & with all the passions of men? Immediately we shall see a Pennsylvania & a Virginia party arise in the residuary confederacy ,and the public mind will be distracted with the same party spirit. What a game, too, will the one party have in their hands by eternally threatening the other that unless they do so & so, they will join their Northern neighbors. If we reduce our Union to Virginia & N. Carolina, immediately the conflict will be established between the representatives of these two States, and they will end by breaking into their simple units. Seeing, therefore, that an association of men who will not quarrel with one another is a thing which never yet existed, from the greatest confederacy of nations down to a town meeting or a vestry, seeing that we must have somebody to quarrel with, I had rather keep our New England associates for that purpose than to see our bickerings transferred to others. They are circumscribed within such narrow limits, & their population so full, that their numbers will ever be the minority, and they are marked, like the Jews, with such a peculiarity of character as to constitute from that circumstance the natural division of our parties. A little patience, and we shall see the reign of witches pass over, their spells dissolve, and the people, recovering their true sight, restore their government to it's true principles. It is true that in the mean time we are suffering deeply in spirit, and incurring the horrors of a war & long oppressions of enormous public debt. But who can say what would be the evils of a scission, and when & where they would end? Better keep together as we are, hawl off from Europe as soon as we can, & from all attachments to any portions of it. And if we feel their power just sufficiently to hoop us together, it will be the happiest situation in which we can exist. If the game runs sometimes against us at home we must have patience till luck turns, & then we shall have an opportunity of winning back the principles we have lost, for this is a game where principles are the stake. Better luck, therefore, to us all; and health, happiness, & friendly salutations to yourself.

Adieu.
tj sig.gif



Kind of sheds some light on our current situation, but perhaps not in the way Barbra intended. There is also a joke in here about this in context of red/blue states, but I'm too tired right now to go for it.

Posted by Robert at November 9, 2004 09:16 AM | TrackBack
Comments

Apparently, the part glossed over by the ellipses totally changes the meaning of the quote. But, would a lefty do something like that? Oh ya, Michael Moore.

Posted by: Brass at November 9, 2004 11:34 AM

Do you really expect Funny Girl to understand all those word with lots of syllables? Sheesh!

Posted by: Gordon at November 9, 2004 12:59 PM

Looks like she nabbed that quote from DU.. "Elizabeth Edwards" posted the same thing at DU (via polipundit)

Posted by: steve at November 9, 2004 03:02 PM

Perhaps you could do the same thing with these Jefferson quotes? Thanks in advance...

"And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this the most venerated reformer of human errors."
--April 11, 1823, to John Adams

This is a letter about how there must have been a creator. Seems like gobbledygook to me.

"I think it most fortunate that your travels in those countries[New Spain] were so timed as to make them known to the world in the moment they were about to become actors on its stage. That they will throw off their European dependence I have no doubt; but in what kind of government their revolution will end I am not so certain. History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes."
--1813, to Alexander von Humboldt

I don't know the number of priests per person in 1813 America, New Spain, or here in America today.

Can you believe Jefferson didn't believe in the Trinity? Why, in the old days we'd kill people like him, and right quick. Back when we had moral values, back in the days of the Council of Nicea. Those "Arian" heretics were killed, no two questions about it.

You say Jefferson had a lot to do with America?

Well, the Bible doesn't mention voting. And gays came up with democracy, and gays are evil. That shows where the Bible stands, I'd say.

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