February 25, 2005


I certainly didn't expect this to happen: The Anglican Communion has grounded the Episcopal Church and given it three years to shape up or get lost. We're talking the Road to Schism here.

I reckoned there was going to be a good deal of hooming and homming over the Bishop Robinson business but that, in the end, everything would simply be glossed over. Instead, it really looks as if the Conservative forces have picked up the two-by-four and mean business.


Basically, if the Episcopal Church does leave the Anglican Communion, then I leave the Episcopal Church. Whether I would go to another Anglican Church or to Rome is something I've been giving some casual thought to, but haven't pursued seriously enough to say for sure. Looks like it may be time to put on the ol' Thinking Cap for real.

Posted by Robert at February 25, 2005 11:01 AM

Or join a local church that ties itself to a traditional Anglican body, such as AMIA.

"In North America alone, groups that have moved away from the increasingly liberal mainstream include the Anglican Mission in America (AMIA), the American Anglican Council, the Anglican Communion in Canada, the Anglican Province of America, Forward in Faith North America, the Anglican Essentials Federation in Canada, the Anglican Network in Canada and the Reformed Episcopal Church.

The AMIA is a movement of churches with an Anglican heritage which joined up in 2000, under the sponsorship of primates based in Singapore and Rwanda...."


Posted by: Any A. Mouse at February 25, 2005 11:47 AM

Yes, I've heard of the AAC - I believe there are already a couple of affiliated churches in my area. Another distinct possibility.

Posted by: Robert the LB at February 25, 2005 11:54 AM

Personally, I'm much more an ACC guy myself.

Go Cavs!

Posted by: Steve the LB at February 25, 2005 12:29 PM

Robert, yes - they've been censured, of sorts. But three years as a timeframe? (btw, I read it as three months; perhaps that's only with regard to suspension from the Anglican Consultative Council.)

I'd say there's your glossing over. Anything can happen in the following three years. The Brits could have a V Gene foisted on - or hoisted by - their own constituency (from what I've gathered in conversations with some Anglican Brits, gay is okay). There could be a call to overturn or reexamine the 1998 resolution Lambeth issued after a previous reexamination of sexuality. The gap appears to be closing, especially given that leaders are calling for a hearing so the North Americans can "explain their views on homosexuality."

But the bottom line rests with the congregations. How has yours responded to this so-called modernization, and how does that square with your Christian beliefs? Is it condoned from the pulpit? From the pews? I mentioned before that we left ECUSA because the congregation in our new city was appostate; I love what Cranmer and Ridley had done for the church - they paid the ultimate price for clinging to scripture - the Anglican communion is nothing without it, which I suspect the North Americans will discover to their dispair.

I appreciate what the English reformers retained in certain compatible, spiritual and beautiful traditions from Rome - which are the main difference between Anglicanism and the Presbyterians - but the foundation is what is important. Without that, the traditions are meaningless.

Posted by: tee bee at February 25, 2005 12:35 PM

Nobody expects the Anglican Schism! Bring on the comfy chairs and soft cushions.
Seriously, I haven't been following the debate that closely, but mightn't the US Anglicans be moving too far too quickly? If you are too far ahead of the pack, you aren't a leader, you're prey. This might be something that takes a couple of generations.

Posted by: RobertJ at February 25, 2005 12:45 PM

Tea and Cake or Death!

Now may be the time for you cross the Tiber. It sounds like a couple of our Cardinals (like Ratzinger and Arinze) would be right up your alley. And no, they can't make you vote one way or the other.

Posted by: dillene at February 25, 2005 01:48 PM

I'm wagering on schism.

I'm wagering Robert the LB will also become so enamored of the Papal Election process that he will end up crossing the Rubicon -- er, Tiber?

He definitely already has all the Stuart-Loyalist-Divine-Right-of-Kings tendencies.

Posted by: The Colossus at February 25, 2005 02:21 PM

Robert, I didn't expect it to happen either. Rome isn't an option for me, and there is one AAC parish here, but I'm not too fond of it. A blog friend of mine is Anglo-Catholic, but their churches are few and far between. I guess if it comes down to it, I'll be a churchless Anglican till something turns up. Though if schism does happen, there will probably be a shakeup locally with other people like me needing options. So that might open up some new avenues.

Posted by: Ith at February 25, 2005 02:40 PM

If it ever came to an actual schism, my parish might very well blow to pieces. The clergy are pretty liberal but the congregation is mixed. We've already had some defections but for the most part there's a truce that will hold so long as the problem is in Somebody-Else's-Diocese. What will happen if the issue is forced, I really don't know for sure but as I say, it could get ugly.

Posted by: Robert the LB at February 25, 2005 02:51 PM

It's times like this I'm glad I grew up in a non-liturgical anabaptist denomination and currently attend a non-denominational evangelical church.

Posted by: Brian B at February 25, 2005 03:25 PM

Robbo--start your subscription to The New Oxford Review. TNOR started out as an Anglican magazine but took the plunge on the Catholic Church a few years later and is now the magazine for pedal to the metal set. You are getting closer all the time . . .

Posted by: LMC at February 25, 2005 04:09 PM

Shh! Ot-nay in-ay ont-fray of-ay e-thay Issus-may!

Posted by: Robert the LB at February 25, 2005 04:16 PM

Unfortunately, Rome is not all it's cracked up to be.

If you are interested in deep orthodoxy and beautiful, intelligent tradition, that went by the wayside decades ago. Your average Roman Catholic parish features goofy ceremonies and liturgies heavy on the children, improv, and lumpish women, wandering sermons, gutted liturgy, and minimal tradition. Not to mention inattentive, downright ill-behaved, congregations. Here on the Monterey Peninsula, they act like the whole thing's a joke.

By contrast, some of the Anglican or Anglo-Catholic churches in America, notably St Mary of the Angels Anglican Church in Los Angeles,are exceedingly rich spiritually and formally. The shorts-and-tank-top-wearing Roman Catholic nuns up the street take the catechism children on field trips to St Mary's to show them what the Church used to be like.

I have attended Roman Masses and first communions and can only admire faithful Catholics for their stubborn love of the Church on such scant rations. Their magnificent birthright has been swapped for a mess of pottage. I pray they will win it back.

Posted by: Margaret at February 26, 2005 11:38 AM

I invite you to check out the Anglican Catholic church.


It was begun in the 70s when the ECUSA decided to ordain women.

Posted by: Sharon Ferguson at February 26, 2005 07:01 PM

From:Mrs.Josephine Kaba

Dear Respectful One,

I know this proposal letter may come to you as a surprise considering the fact that we have not had any formal acquaintance before, but all the same I would want you for the sake of God to give this an immediate attention in view of the fact that the security of my live and possession is at stake .

I am Mrs.Josephine Kaba from war ravaged SIERRA LEONE but presently domiciled in Abidjan Ivory coast with my two sons .My Husband Mr.Richard Kaba who before his untimely assassination by the rebels was the Director of SIERRA LEONE Diamond corporation LDC) .

He was killed in our government residential house along side two of my other children ,two house maids and one government attached security guard, fortunately for I, and my two sons,we were on a week end visit to our home town As we got the news of the tragedy ,we immediately managed to ran into neighbouring country IVORY COAST for refuge .

As we were coming into this country ,we had some documents of a deposit of $5.5m USD (Five
million Five hundred thousand united state dollars ) made by my late Husband in a Security and trust company .

Following the content of my Husband,s which I saw it reads that he intended to use this fund for his
international business transaction after his tenure in office but was unfortunately murdered .I had located the security company where the money is deposited with the help of an attorney and established ownership.

Please right now ,with the bitter experiences we had in our country and the war still going on especially in diamond area which incidentally is where we hail from Coupled with the recent political upheavals and hostilities in this country Ivory coast ,we desire seriously to leave here and live the rest of our life into a more peaceful and politically stable country like yours Hence this proposal and request .We therefore wish you can help me in the followingregards.

1) To provide me with a good bank account to transfer the money into.

2) To help me invest the money into a lucrative business .

3) To assist my two sons get a college admission to further their education.

Please I know that , this letter may sound strange and incredible to you but the CNN and the BBC African bulletin normally have it as their major news features .Therefore for the sake of God and humanity give an immediate positive consideration and reply to me via our e-mail address or call me with my number above.

I will willingly agree to any suitable percentage of the money you will propose as your compensation for your assistance with regards to the above .

Please in view of our sensitive refugee status and as I am still conscious of my Husband's enemies .

I would like you to give this a highly confidential pproach .

Remain Blessed as you come up to help a widow like me.

Yours sincerely,

Mrs.Josephine Kaba.

Posted by: Mrs.Josephine Kaba at May 4, 2005 07:21 AM
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