Nothing says "science fiction" to me like a suede jacket.

:-)

Amen, Robert! Preach on! It probably doesn't help that I had a HUGE crush on Starbuck back in the day. Now, that's just... wrong.

Seriously, I kid you about being an uptight traditionalist to the point of making me want to strike you, but this is your most ridiculous bit yet. I liked the old series ... when I was 12. Gay. Campy.

The new series treats the cool thing about the show, Armageddon, struggle for survival while being hunted by dogs seriously, with effects that are kind of cool.

It's very good. I know you miss "Boxie" running around with "Daggit," and Starbuck flipping his feathered 'do and slipping sleeping pills into Mr. T's milk, but man, this review is really insane.

Good new series. Dumb llama.

PS - Not one dollar over $9, take it or leave it.

Sorry, I've got to agree with Bill. The new miniseries was different in tone than the old series, and to some extent it works. The viper pilots being idiots [or at least overconfident] led to their complete destruction, which seems different than overconfident political leaders being destroyed in the original. Balthazar seems more possible, more human, and in spite of what #6 says seems to care about people at least sometimes.

Ok, so they don't have a cute robot dog. I'm still going to watch the series.

#1) The writer of the new galactaca was a total tool

*) he didn't know what the cylons were
*) He didn't understand what the series actually was about

#2) "I will have sex with you so i can commit genocide on your people." yes clearly this is a sign from a much more serious series

#3) The series was less about the destruction of human society and more a biblical re-telling.

Adama as Moses... the cylons as the egyptians

or

the humans as adam and eve, the cylon robots as the jealous fallen angels

all this tied into the common elements of the collective human psyche

The new galacta is about the evils of network computers and some P**** A** Millitary commander who felt that humanity deserves to die

F*** Him and his liberal hippie PC attitude

The new galacta not only suxxors.. other then a few names in common its not even the same set of ideas

I will watch it through the first view episodes-the characters and the storyline are more complex than when I was 14 so my taste may not be as shallow as I thought. I like the new Boomer (a babe and an improvement) but the new Starbuck (a blonde with muscles and a tattoo on the back of her neck) will take some getting used to. She should ditch the cigar.

Gosh Larry, tell us how you really feel. I'm not sure Jesus wouuld go for your asterisks.

The Cylon part is the weakest part, specifically the woman seducing the guy via a chip implanted in his head. Then again, I suppose stranger things have happened, and he obviously didn't anticipate the genocide. I haven't been able to figure out what exactly he is doing where the miniseries left off.

other then a few names in common its not even the same set of ideas

And, that summs up to me what the difference is. They have the same Galactica, similar Vipers, and some "call signs" (sheesh) that are the same. Other than that, they could have named the series something else, given the Galactica a makeover and called it something else, and then what... is it a bad show then?

When it first hit The Overrated Horror and B-Movie Channel, I was just as pissed about the snippage of Star(no)buck (hold the latte). However, when I saw part of the miniseries (last week, on some broadcast network) I realized that someone probably got a fat payoff for the use-rights of the copyrights in all the various names associated with BSG, and that was it. That was the sum total of the connection between "The Original Series" and this new thing. I'd probably be happier if they had actually got someone creative to rename everything (and redesign the Galactica, though I like the original design) so that there isn't the comparason between the two shows, but hey, noone asked for my opinion then.

(As for my opinion now, well, that's just gratis ;) ).

The Cylon part is the weakest part, specifically the woman seducing the guy via a chip implanted in his head.

As an ex-Scaper, please, PLEASE tell me that they didn't do the whole brain-eating Scorpy setup. What next, the alien du jure that looks human except the bumps on the forehead? Or how about some hokey religion with telekinesis and glowing swords? Some creativity is needed here!

No, implantable chip in his head that projects the image and sensation, I guess. The cylons CAN assume human form, though not in a "species" way, in a we're robots in a network, way. Personally, I miss the old cylons. Biggest problem with the series is the baddies.

Outrangeous slander! Vile calumny! I like the old series too, despite its many faults (and let's not even talk about Galactica: 1980, where we learned that the fearsome Cylons were helpless against deadly microwave ovens.)

But, seriously, the miniseries was really pretty good. I thought I'd hate it for all the reasons you mention, but I don't. Yeah, it's not the original series in much but name and general premise, but, really, that's ok with me. It's not intended as a remake so much as an alternate interpretation, kinda like DC does with their Elseworlds books. I am curious to see how well it translates into a regular series, though. I think we'll see more themes from the original creep in as time goes on. I also hope we see more of the machine Cylons alongside the humanoid ones.

I haven't made up my mind about the new series. I saw the commercials and felt nothing but revulsion. Yet a couple of days ago one of my roommates and I ended up watching most of the first half of the miniseries rebroadcast and actually liked it quite a bit. The second half I did not enjoy so much, but that may be due to the level of conversation in the room being high enough that following the plot was impossible.

There are some things I really don't like about this new one. First, the uniforms. They look like the costumes made for every science fiction and comic book adaptation made since Batman first popularized skintight black outfits in 1989. The old BG uniforms were at least original.

There are also some hints of PC baloney, as Larry pointed out. My favorite PC moment is when the black woman priest swears in the female secretary of education as the new president. Way to smash the patriarchy, guys.

I'm also not sure what they're going to do about religion. This priest shows up to administer the oath of office, but the oath doesn't end with "so help me God," which was very weird. I don't remember any priests from the old series, but there were characters (like Adama) who did a little preaching on the side. And then there was all the really wacky stuff with Count Iblis and the angels towards the end of the series. The new series would do well to steer clear of some of the more wild-eyed myth-making of the later episodes, but I don't want to see the genuine religious feeling of the first series replaced with a bunch of new-agey PC baloney.

All that said, I liked the first half of the miniseries enough to tune in to the second half. I think it will be interesting to see how it all turns out.

Do not worry about the PC stuff going too far. In the new one, Adama treats the education secretary turned new Colonial president as a vacuous bimbo with one or two good ideas, but definitely not someone to be taken seriously all the time. Leaving behind the sublight ships to face the Cylons was the first indication that PC will only go so far. Remember Star Trek NG started the same way with all of the negotiation/arbitration/mediation b.s. but by the time the series ended, the intrepid crew was shooting anything that moved.

Note to Bill: no Jebus-baiting here, please

I just thought that complaining that the original was a Biblical allegory was a nice dovetail with the strangely hostile profanity.

WWAD?

(What Would Adama Do?)

"Cortez vs. the Aztecs" is "the thin red line of Western Civilization holding back the flood of barbarism."

Man, that's a whole 'nother discussion.

First to Bill Love your work Brah but

#1) I don't pray to Jesus, not a christian, so that is really meaningless to me :-)
#2) My comment about the seduction was basically that it was a silly method of using cheesecake to sell the show ( and nothing more). It was the only reason we see hot babe-lons
#3) I like the Male-to-Female charecter changes. I was hesitant about them but they all worked out well imho
#4) My use of the biblical allegory was a challenge to what you seemed to thing the original show was about, my profantity is do to my intolerance of PCness

Now back to the meat. The show had weak villians, Weak heros, and a general gloomy prospect.

Thats not what humanity is about. Thats not what a story of man against evil villian should be about.

yes we can see a flawed hero vehicle but we see to many of them anymore.

1. k, but I still say that Jesus would frown.

2. agree

3. agree

4. To quote the Llamas: lighten up, Francis. And this show isn't TOO TOO bad on that front.

"Now back to the meat. The show had weak villians, Weak heros, and a general gloomy prospect"

Agree on the villians, thus far. But what I like so much is the gloominess, grit. Why? It sets up a payoff. It also has modern allusions, rather than Biblical ones.

Angst is Soooo 1990s Bill ;-) Why don't you listen to some "Heart Shaped Box"

To say there is a Modern retelling is in some sense one of the worst lies ever. The original arctypes in stories always get reinvented within the context of new ideas

you know the whole Power of Myth thing

I can pound a phone book of classical illusions into your head even in the new version, but whats worse this series is replaying every cliche of the "Man Vs Machine... and Machine wins" Genre.

this is why i liked the original series, why the cylons where machines it wasn't about their machiness

How about the new Starbuck taking on bad Cylon blonde in the best of five rounds with new Boomer refereeing? Just suggesting . . . We will truly know when the new series is on ropes when someone get married, someone has a baby, or they bring up lesbian experimentation.

So would a "classical illusion" to an "arctype" be, like, having a hot young Mrs. Malaprop character in a show about piano-playing holograms?

D'oh

Last time i try to multitask "perfectly legitimate internet usage" while working

The Cylon part is the weakest part, specifically the woman seducing the guy via a chip implanted in his head.

Don't be too sure you know what's going on there at this point, Bill. Practically nothing in this show is what it initially appears to be.

My favorite PC moment is when the black woman priest swears in the female secretary of education as the new president. Way to smash the patriarchy, guys.

I think you're reaching a little bit there. In point of fact, zero is made of the fact that the priest, Elosha, is either female or black, or that Laura Roslin is a woman. It is a huge issue, however, that Roslin assumed power in the civilian government during a shooting war, thus providing the first point of conflict between Roslin and Adama. "We're in the middle of a war, and you're taking orders from a schoolteacher?!" he demands. Watching these two go from mutual disgust to grudging respect to friendship and back to grudging respect is one of the best parts of the series.

This priest shows up to administer the oath of office, but the oath doesn't end with "so help me God," which was very weird.

No, it ends with "with every fiber of my being," which is one of Adama's lines from the old "Galactica" TV show. The series is chock full of little nods like that. My favorite comes from Adama's bigass speech at the end of the pilot. "'Life here began out there,'" he says. "Those are the first words of the sacred scrolls." Fans of the old show may remember that the first words of the prologue of the original pilot were, "There are those who believe that life here began out there, among the stars."

The show had weak villians, Weak heros, and a general gloomy prospect. Thats not what humanity is about.

I'm sorry to say that, a lot of the time, that's exactly what humanity is about. The history of the human race is a long saga of depravity and mediocrity punctuated by moments of soaring achievement. Any portrait of humanity as uniformly uplifting or hopeful might put a smile on your face, but it's just empty calories.

In other words, it's easy to make people laugh. It's hard to make people cry. And watching the premiere of "Galactica" last night had me in uncontrollable tears twice. (Bet you can guess which parts.)

Cool. Jeff just covered about every point I wanted to make.

One thing about the first 2 episodes (33, Water) that had me paying attention were the little clues and hints that all may not be waht it seems. Could be false clues, red herrings or the stuff of which later on you slap your forehead and exclaim "DOAH!"

We had Number Six being ernestly insistent on having a baby with Baltar, then another blonde back on Caprica was offed while she is freeing Helo after which one of her "sisters" observes the hole in her back with ... disgust? Are the cylons being corrupted by humanity?

BTW...as an original Trekker who loves and still enjoys (and can quote dialogue from) the original series ... If the same writing, editing and production values could be brought to a new Star Trek on the same level as I'm seeing with the new BSG... I be there cheering it on with bells on!

I'll bet that if someone were to try and do a new Star Trek series, with different actors playing Kirk, Spock and the rest, and a radically different take on its premise, most of you new BSG afficionados would be going ape-sh*t.

Speaking strictly for myself, of course not. I like good stories that are well-told. Taking a story that's already been told and re-telling it with a new interpretation is one of the best things a writer can do. (I mean, assuming he does it well. If the new interpretation sucks, that's a problem, but it's a problem of execution, not of theory.)

We had Number Six being ernestly insistent on having a baby with Baltar, then another blonde back on Caprica was offed while she is freeing Helo after which one of her "sisters" observes the hole in her back with ... disgust? Are the cylons being corrupted by humanity?

That was just a set-up to get the human's trust.

Darleen, you might like it less if, say, they made Kirk a girl.

That said, I just try to forget about the names and try and enjoy it on its own terms. Originally I looked at it as "They took away Starbuck's penis", now I look at it as "They gave Starbuck a vagina".

you might like it less if, say, they made Kirk a girl.

I don't want to put words in Darleen's mouth here, but … why? Is it not possible for a female starship captain to be an interesting and three-dimensional character? I never watched "Star Trek Voyager," but didn't that show have a female captain? I seem to recall that it was at least marginally successful. Didn't it run for half a dozen seasons or something?

Frankly, now that you mention it, if you took the core premise of "Star Trek" — a space ship explores the galaxy and encounters aliens-of-the-week — and made the captain a hard-lovin', hard-drinkin', scenery-chewin' woman, I'd be interested. Give the lead character some real character flaws, and play them as flaws rather than as assets. Explore the dynamics of her relationships with her crew. Give her the chance to screw up badly and see how she reacts to it.

Okay, I'm hooked.

Now, if you instead were to tell a story of a one-dimensional, always-saves-the-day hero who never agonizes over his decisions, who never makes a mistake, who never has a bad day unless there's been some kind of transporter accident … no thanks. I don't care what the genders of the various characters are. I'm not interested.

Ok, My whole things is we see the whole "grim Gritty Frank Miller" bit all the time. Frankly its overdone and boring.

It doesn't add any real depth to the experience its just a pain to watch.

But after several friends who, like me, hated the Mini-Series told me "The actual series isn't that bad"

I will try to catch some of the replay tonight and give it a second chance.

Ok I watched the replay

Meh.... The Series is better then the Miniseries ( i guess its the fact they don't have as much to bang out) but its still nothing to write home about

but my relentless hatred is gone

On the Sci-fi channel forums before the mini-series was released made almost every point made in this discussion. Personally, I hated the idea of the new series, but I've been watching it and have to say it isn't bad, but could have been done so much better if it had been truer to the original. The original had strong female characters that weren't developed very well, so changing some of the male leads to female never made much sense to me. The whole thing with Col. Tigh being a drunk ala the John Wayne-Kirk Douglas movie "In Harm's Way" is also a terribly stupid idea and included BY DESIGN. I miss the orignal Cylon-Human conflict and the "mythic" perspective of the original as well.