April 22, 2005
Wayward Child
Kevin at Wizbang posts video footage of a five year old girl having a meltdown at a Florida elementary school and eventually being hand-cuffed and arrested by the cops. I agree with Kevin and most of his commenters that, based on what you can see, there was no reason whatsoever for the police to get involved.
But here's the part that incenses me. After rightly criticizing the police response, the kid's lawyer, no doubt with visions of even more dollar signs dancing in his head, has this to say about the teachers involved:
"I'm concerned that the educators shadowed and hovered around the young girl," he said. "It certainly gives credence to the argument that they may have been provoking her to act out more. To me, it didn't look like a de-escalation. It looked like an escalation, an attempt to get her to act out more. I just don't understand why they didn't distance themselves back further and allow things to cool off."
This is pure shysterism. It's also patent nonsense. Go back and look at the footage - those teachers were softballing the kid, doing nothing more than trying to talk to her in that sorrowful/concerned voice about "appropriate behavior" even after she started tearing things apart and punching them.
Look, I understand that schools operate in daily dread of getting slapped with a lawsuit if the teacher even looks at someone's little darlin' the wrong way, so no doubt these two were just doing what they'd been trained to. But I can tell you from experience with my own extremely tempermental daughter that backing off in the face of this kind of behavior is not the means by which you make it stop. It is, in fact, the equivalent of pinning a "kick me" sign on your own backside. That girl knew perfectly well she could do what she wanted because nobody was going to seriously try to stop her - indeed, it was only when the cops whipped out the cuffs that she suddenly stopped thinking about herself and started worrying about anybody else at all.
There appears to be all sorts of backstory here, so it's hard to say exactly what is going on. One of the cops says something about having talked to the girl and her mother before about how he was going to cuff her the next time, so there is evidently a history of problems.
But the underlying point is that what a kid like that needs mostly is not kid-glove treatment followed by over-the-top gestures once things get out of hand. Rather, she needs clear, firm rules and discipline in the first place. She has to understand that there is a line in the sand, the crossing of which is unacceptable. And she has to know that if she does cross that line, she will - metaphorically speaking - get her legs broken. This doesn't necessarily mean spanking, but it does mean that whatever technique is used, the kid has to be afraid of the consequences of her actions. (In the office clip, the girl takes repeated swings at her teacher, whose only response is to say, "You have no right to hit me." Sorry, but a five year old in a rage doesn't give a rat's ass about rights.)
Of course, this shouldn't be a job for the police. Instead, it's first and foremost a job for the parents. We simply don't have enough information to figure out this kid's particular home situation. But we can certainly see that whatever her own parents are or are not doing, it isn't working very well.
But it strikes me that the teachers also need to be able to modify their approach, to be able to put some teeth into their authority so that it doesn't take the arrival of the cops to jerk little Miss Hissyfit out of her self-absorption.
Of course, in this case the police will certainly get sued and the school probably will as well. And the girl and her family probably will make out pretty well. What kind of a lesson do you think that is going to send?
Posted by Robert at April 22, 2005 05:47 PMShe might need psychological help. It may not be "self-absorption" - at least how you're defining it. She may be living in a nightmare at home. The "hissy fit" might be a message - it might be a way of screaming HELP ME. HELP ME. I hope they get her counseling. To me, a tantrum of that level is not a normal tantrum.
Posted by: red at April 22, 2005 08:39 PMI've watched as much of the tapes as I can stand. I agree, this isn't a "normal" tantrum, just in terms of the destruction the kid caused.
However, I also don't see anything clearly needing counseling or meds. She needs a comprehensive action plan, in school and at home, with consequences more than the teacher saying "That's not acceptable." And the school and the family need to follow it.
Posted by: Owlish at April 22, 2005 11:14 PMFive bucks says that out of all the interviews ever done about this incident, not one will be from this child's father.
Posted by: Juliette at April 22, 2005 11:17 PMOwlish - you may be right. Who knows. Neither of us know the girl, and neither of us know her parents. None of us do. But it should definitely be investigated as to why this occurred. Little kids who are being abused, or who live in nightmares, often behave in completely inexplicable ways. They "act out". The question at least needs to be on the table: what is going on with this girl at home?
Now she may be just a brat. But that should not be assumed. Other options also need to be looked at.
Posted by: red at April 23, 2005 07:31 AMYes, the emotional/psychological trouble is, of course, a possibility that should be looked into. As I said, we don't know enough to say. But in terms of acting out, don't underestimate what even a normal kid in a supposedly solid family can do if allowed to go to seed. I didn't see anything here I haven't seen before.
Posted by: Robert the LB at April 23, 2005 10:10 AMI agree with red, and I'll go one step further. the girl AND HER MOM need psychological help. The fact that the child has the nerve to push the teacher, try to slap her, and refused to sit down when asked to, shows she not only needs psychological help but better parenting too.
The teacher showed good restraint, in my opinion. You make a good point,Robert... that the teachers also need to be able to put some teeth into their authority.
that is such a grey area today. Teachers have to watch how they handle disclipinary measures or they'll get in trouble; and when you combine that with a lack of disclipine at home, it's a catch 22 situation that lands the kid in handcuffs.
what a screwed up system we've created.
Robert - Of course not. A tantrum is a tantrum, and I'm not discounting the fact that this kid might just be a spoiled brat. She also seems to be rather pre-verbal - like a little animal. I don't think I heard one coherent word out of her mouth. Just grunts and squeaks. This girl is a mess. But what you say shouldn't be assumed - not in a case like this. A friend of mine was raped by her uncle repeatedly for her entire childhood, fromt he time she was 4 years old. Her whole family knew this was happening, and looked the other way. She would go to school and go NUTS. Biting people, slapping her teachers, drawing on the walls. It was her only way of having people be concerned about her, even if they were angry with her or sending her to the principal's office.
I mean, obviously this was a crisis situation - they call the mother to come pick her daughter up, and she says she can't come until 3:15. Maybe she would have gotten fired if she left her job, or maybe she didn't want to miss her manicure appointment, I don't know. But I do know that if my brother got a call that his son was tearing up a classroom so badly that they had to evacuate the room, he would risk getting fired, drop everything, and run to be with his son.
Oh, and also: who knows how the teacher might have handled it if that damn camera wasn't there. She never once used the tone of voice that the cop used with the girl: Like: "You will SIT DOWN. NOW." The tone of your voice can do a lot. My father could get us into line with one simple: "Knock it off." You should have heard how scary his voice was when he said, "Knock it off." We promptly knocked it off. But I wonder if the teacher was protecting her ass, on some level, because it was being filmed.
Posted by: red at April 23, 2005 11:15 AMFirst of all, I see children in restaurants and stores all the time having these tantrums with their parents. They yell, scream and even hit their parents. These children come from good homes with the father and the mother. So where do you all come off with this mess that this kind of tantrum from a 5 year old is not normal. Also, we do not know what these teachers have said to this child off camera. I know for a fact how cruel teachers can be. I have a child that has no hair on his head, and the teacher sat in class in front of all the other kids and called him baldhead... At the same school, another teacher called him Mr. Clean and another teacher at the same elementary school, frisked my child, only to find out that he had candy on him, the candy was in tube that it came in and it was reported in the report that the teacher wrote that the tube that the candy was in was a dangerous object. I reported this to the school district and not one dam thing was ever done, I finally took my child out of that school. Teachers can be pretty cruel to children. I know this for a fact. My child is a victim of teacher abuse, and just like the police, they seem to get away with just about anything until it is caught on camera. I hope that the school and the police get what they deserve. As for the little girl, maybe now the parents can get the money they w/need to put her in a much better school.
Posted by: someone who understands at April 23, 2005 01:47 PMSomeone who understands:
I assume "So where do you all come off with this mess that this kind of tantrum from a 5 year old is not normal." is addressed to me. For God's sake, forgive me for trying to offer maybe another perspective on this story.
Read my comments again, you'll see I'm saying: She might be just a brat, but she might not be. She needs psychological help.
Posted by: red at April 23, 2005 02:14 PMsorry, that kind of tantrum from a 5 year old is NOT normal,
IMHO. any time a child is violent with an adult (not while defending self from abuse, obviously) there is a problem--
child abuse, certainly, in some cases; extremely stupid parenting, a good bet most of the time.
and children who scream at and physically attack parents DO NOT come from good homes. they may look good on the outside, but they are clearly not getting the job done.
What amazes me is how much stew so many people are willing to make from so little oyster.
We don't know anything except what is on the tape.
All kinds of things COULD be true about this situation. But we don't know any of them.
The emotional nature of the footage leads many to build their own imaginary backstory - but such guessing games have little value to the people directly involved.
My suggestion would be that a responsible adult from the school board be appointed to investigate the matter thoroughly (and here's hoping they have a responsible adult who can do such a difficult job well).
And that they do this without projecting their own suppositions on the situation, or imputing motives and behaviors to people NOT EVEN IN THE VIDEO.
Certainly, something seems wrong here. It should be checked out. But beyond encouraging on-the-scene investigation, I think the sidewalk speculators should restrain themselves
Posted by: Parker at April 23, 2005 08:48 PMIts amazing the comments you read after seeing an incident involving a child. If you spend any time in the school system, even leaving your house and going to the park or even K-mart. This happens all the time but what can you do. If teachers put their hands on a child, you wanna sue. If you call the cops so they can handle it, you wanna sue. If you leave the child alone and give them space, like someone suggested. What happens next, well they cause even more damage. Or maby harming another child, possibly yours. If that little darling picked up a pair of scissors or letter opener and harmed another child then what. America needs to wake up, these are the rules you have set. When the schools use to discipline the students it became to much for america but there was little to no violence in schools. Now kids come to school with guns and pipe bombs. America you need to discipline your children and stop blaming the other guy for your problems. Because you refuse to discipline your children and decide to let someone else do it. Until it dosent fit your needs, please. wakeup America!
Posted by: Dad at April 26, 2005 01:01 PM
